As I watched a local television news channel I recognized a face of someone who was alleged to have been involved with the Jack Phillips murder. His street name is pronounced 'Nee*voh,' and he is from San Jose de Ocoa. He was at the courthouse in Santo Domingo being interviewed. I didn't catch it from the beginning, but from what I gather he was being released after being held for 15 months. I then decided to go online to see what I could find out. According to published reports, the three people suspected of being involved with Jack's murder have been set free. Nothing mentioned of other leads, nothing.
Now what?
Now what?
Posts
69 comments:
Is it my imagination or is violence increasing in Santo Domingo? Is it the bad economy or drugs?
unfurtunately that is how things are in my country. if the parents of the murdered wasn't trying to make sure that the responsibles spend the rest of their live behind the bars, on the other side there were people trying to get theirs release, and this happens with more frequency especially when high-ranking officers are backing up those people. att tmwtbel.
Yes,regrettably , when a gringo is murdered or robbed or assaulted by a Dominican, the courts do not give the culprits a substantial time in prison unless the family of the victim really push hard. Also , if the culprits can produce money then they will spend very little time behind bars. The justice system in RD is very poor and is best to always play it safe with good security .And yes, things now are much worse as there are many desperate people from Haiti looking for a chance to get money .
It is not surprising that everyone ever connected with Mr. Phillips' murder is free. If there is no family member paying for legal representation on behalf of the deceased, who cares about another old, dead, gay foreigner?
My sister-in-law had a son killed in a carjacking in Puerto Plata some years ago. The suspects were arrested, found guilty, and imprisoned. Every time they come up for parole, she is there and they go back to prison. In addition, she is a judge. They will never get out of prison while she is alive. Who does Mr. Phillips have to hold his killers
accontable for his death? Nobody.
From Puerto Rico,
Rafael
06:01, I can relate to how things are in your country, but I wonder if Jack was the one that killed that bastard, would he be out of jail in 15 months; so how I doubt it. That said, I'd have to advocate going for the throat if one ever finds themselves in a potential life threating situation there; this shitty turn of events makes it sadly apparent that it truly is in fact better them then you.
It is not surprising to hear that the perps are free. One of the most obvious problems in DR is the broken justice system. While it is not fair, it is. Yet, the system of capital justice in the US is also not fair. In general in parts of the world if someone has capital they get a different level of justice. I suspect that the victims life style impacted the decision to free the perps. Very few places in the world value the life of a Homosexual. DR is not a Gay friendly country. We do not have rights and are not respected. The dollars we bring are welcomed but what we represent as people is not. I have been visiting DR for approx. 30 years. Many in our lifestyle have been victimized. It is another message to our community to be very careful.
There is a increase in violence EVERYWHERE!!!!! I have stopped visiting PR because of the violence. DR is no exception. In Europe, South America, Central America, EVERYWHERE, violence is increasing. As gay people we are more vulnerable than ever before. DR is no exception. I suspect that if the family had advocated harder they too would have been victimized. The lawyers are thieves, the system is only as good as the money one has. The police are crooks. From the time we land in DR until the time we leave, we are vulnerable. We will be victimized in many ways, every opportunity possible. What is sad is that we victimize each other in many less obvious ways. There is fun to be had in DR. Yet, we must be vigilent and always be aware that we do not have protection. We must always be on guard. Not the police, not the justice system, not the local gays, not even the hotels, can protect us from danger. It is a reality. Sad but true. I will continue to visit DR and take the risks I believe are worth taking. I have intervened in situations and cautioned other gay visitors about dealing with certain hustlers from the Conde because I knew they had bad reps. They not only did not listen, they were victimized and told the hustler I had bad mouthed him. He ,to this day, has it in for me. I do not know what the answer is other than TO BE CAREFUL.
I am Jack Phillips' sister. What is a person to do when criminal attorneys want thousands of dollars to keep murderers in prison? Jack's children and I do not have that kind of money. His murder was not gay-related. It was money-related. The low-lives who killed him would have killed their own mothers for $5.00! My brother thought they were his friends. The whole justice system in Santo Domingo is obviously corrupt. If the judge who set them free is able to sleep at night, more power to him! Jack's family, in the meantime, have had their lives torn apart. I lost my soul-mate and Jack's children lost their only parent. I hope they ALL burn in hell!
To the post at 07:57:00AM Very well written, and TRUE,TRUE,TRUE.
oh funny here you have Nancy Grace screaming her hearth out over what happened in Aruba!!! but you dont have her screaming about this guy that was killed in DR. why well because he is old or gay? or because he was not a young girl! she is so busy spending so much energy while their are so many other people all over the world being killed!
I agree with the comments of the sister that the legal system here has many flaws and also that the crimes are committed normally to obtain money rather than gay bashing.There are so many people now in the DR , especially now that desperate people from Haiti have made their way here, that have next to nothing and gay foreigners are seen as a fairly easy way to get some money. Anyone who has lived here for some time knows that it is extremely rare to find a true Dominican friend ,,money is always the desire .It is just whether a perceived friend wants a continual source , and thus you think he is a friend or whether he wants the money just once off.
To Mr. Phillips' sister:
The Dominican legal system is corrupt from the highest ranking general/judge all the way down
to the lowest in rank. What has been written here is not a reflexion on you or any of
your family. Surely, you did what you could with what means you had available. It is impossible for most people to forever pay large amounts of money to lawyers in a foreign country to keep a murderer in prison. But, truth be told, they will be out in no time if the family of the deceased can not come up with money on a regular basis. RIP, Jack Phillips.
From Florida,
Rafael
Am I missing something or is the June 27, 5:52 poster giving shade to Jack's sister for being upset that (1) her brother, and, btw, my friend, Jack, has been killed and (2) that the murderers have been let free?! How f--k--g insensitive! This is an outrage and it should not go without challenge! What can be done, is the question.
I was not close to Jack but met him. He did not deserve to die. No one deserves to be victimized. Yet I do believe, even though it was not a hate crime per se, the level of attention the police gave it was related to his being gay. It is no different in DR than anywhere else. We are considered to be LACRA SOCIAL!!!!!!!! Social blight. DR is a corrupt country, with a corrupt President who has openly befriended criminals. The level of crime in DR under Fernandez has tripled. It will not get better. The judge who freed the perps, all involved, have no conscience. They may rot in hell but I doubt they even think about the pain they have caused. My cpondolences to the family. DR is a example of a post dictatorship country with a long history of a very corrupt legal system. Nancy Grace you ask? She is only interested in women's rights. If you think any TV show in US or anywhere cares about the brutal murder of a gay male in DR, sorry, it will never happen. Even the US embassy and all personnel there will not advocate for anycase involving a gay. Whether it is gay related or not. WE ARE CONSIDERED LACRA SOCIAL and dispensable. It is a country with a hate monger of a Cardinal and a corrupt system of justice. Punto, hecho y dicho. Plain and simply painful. I do not like it but I walk with my eyes open. It is not fair, no. But we must always BE AWARE. To believe we have friends. Well maybe, del pecho but no de espalda. Maybe in the face but not watching out back. It is a country of con artists. I have fut there but believe me I do not walk in denial. It could happen to anyone of us. Peace & Love, bless you all. My condolences to the family.
I had the pleasure of speaking with Jack on numerous occasions while visiting the DR. He was a witty, fun loving person. What is alarming is that these criminals are now free to harm others.
Are there any pictures or discriptions of them available for ID purposes?
The last thing any tourist needs is to run into them.
My condolences to his family.
First I send my heart felt condolences to Jack's sister. And to poster 07:57 I FEEL YOU!! I was just there over the holiday weekend in May, and I too became a vic. Now I have been going down for about 20 years now and consider myself quite savvy about the goings on, and yet I too let my guard down. But what was more disturbing was I thought I had a friend, but in the end he sided with the one who robbed me. Now it was not about the articles stolen, is was the principle. In the end I find that most of them only want a peso. But I think it is so stupid to rob someone who is constantly good to you just for a one off. But for 10 years I was friends with one of those 'go getters' you know the ones who gets you the boy, the drugs the WHATEVERS... For 10 years I was good to him even when I did not require his services, because he would, (when needed) deliver some top grade BEEF! Well now that relationship is OVER, and like the other poster I have warned the kids about certain boys, and of course they did not listen, but if someone had said that I had bad mouthed them... then it is on. All this to say children, the Conde is NOT the only source of prime beef. Learn some Spanish and venture out and even meet someone on the internet.... I DID! And 4 years later it is still perfect. But sill, BE CAREFUL!
I want to thank those of you who are on our (Jack's family) side and your kind thoughts. We not only lost Jack--we lost a lot more. Jack's three grandchildren still ask, "Where's Grandpa?" What do you tell three children under the age of five? When Jack's and my mother died of Alzheimer's disease, the last thing she managed to say to Jack was, "Take care of your little sister always." Of course, I wasn't "little" at the time, but Jack took it to heart--maybe too much so! He'd call me every single day and ask how I was. He even bought a condo close to where I live so that we could enjoy our "golden" years together. He never got to move in! I had a cancer scare a couple of weeks ago and needed to talk to my "big" brother. I couldn't. We don't want sympathy--all we EVER wanted was justice. I guess it's too much to ask. My life ended when Jack's did. The fact that three people were set free was the final straw. "Justice" is only for the rich.
Jack's sister.
I second the other comments. The DR is extremely dangerous to tourists who "reach out" to the locals. Sure, gays can have a great time, we all know that. But never forget that your Dominican "friends" are all potential thieves, con men, muggers, or worse. And if your buddy doesn't betray you, he probably has socios who will. Never keep money in your house, don't show off your expensive possessions, never open your door at night, even to people you know, if they drop by unexpectedly. Always have a witness when you have a guest, or make a new friend. Take photos of your local friends for reference and demand a xerox of their cedula. No cedula = crook. Never let anyone sleep over. Most importantly, don't be romantic, and don't make exceptions to the rules of self-protection. That's the surest way to get hurt - emotionally, financially, and maybe physically. I have lived 3 years in the DR and have been robbed and assaulted by the people I trusted most, and to whom I was most kind and generous, even after relationships lasting 3-6 months. This kind of experience is common among many of my gringo friends. Some are burgled and threatened with guns, others are mugged, robbed. One hears of deaths as well. Bad news is not an exception, it is the rule and it applies to both Dominican and Haitian guys.
To Jack Sister
Here is a link which might help you.It is from Nuria Piera one of the most famous journalists in the Dominican republic.
http://www.nuria.com.do/inicio.php
You can present her your case. She might be able to help you put that animal back in jail
Good luck
TO Jun 28, 11:39 Anonymous
yes u have it wrong! I was not giving shade as u call it, dont try to make mess out of something that is not! JP sister has all the right to be upset! I was no way challenging the passing of her brother. its all directed to NG that she does not do enough to high light other country or gay incidents that happens! so before u get all bend out of shape !I was not being f--k--g insensitive like u say!
Thank you for the link! I have written to Nancy Grace, MSNBC, Dateline, 20/20, President Obama, all the major newspapers in the U.S., etc., and have not received ONE reply! Wish me luck with the journalist! I just want to be heard.
Jack's sister.
6.08 is correct, unfortunately. If you decide to meet the Dominican people and to show friendship then you must be aware that you are going to be hit with many requests for financial assistance and when you decline , no matter how politely , you are at risk.
This is a fact at many levels of society.Even Dominicans themselves take few risks at night so why should foreigners.
I also agree that encounters atConde should be avoided at all times and also that you must be very careful at places like Jaydees and Friends.
We all would love to believe that our Dominican lovers are honest and faithful and reliable but it is a different culture here and they always put themselves first .
Hey guys - I just graduated and planned on coming down to the DR for 7 days to celebrate. I speak Spanish and I've been to PR and Venezuela..never any problems. Soooo I've been reading these threads over the past few months and I'm starting to become concerned. I mean, is it really that dangerous or is it no more dangerous than any other country? Thank God I have never had any problems being black or gay when traveling..but these comments about the robberies, violence etc. are almost making me 2nd guess coming down. Maybe I should stick to PR? Advice? I mean let me know what I should expect.. should I stay away from the boyz? stick to a4a guys? hell can I even go out to the clubs?
Please let me know your thoughts.. Damien
Well, Damien I am more afraid in PR than DR! If you are from a major city, and/or have traveled to any major city, then the same rules apply but 10 fold! Also as gentle natured as Dominicans appear, the vast majority are completely mercenary. With that said, they want something, and you want something, then use that spanish and make it WORK!! But keep your wits about you and make it CLEAR (in spanish) what is about to go down and you will have a blast!!
Damien,
You ask to be told what to expect? After reading the threads, you need to ask? Denial is not a friend. Read the threads again and then again. They answer your question about what to expect!!!!
The fact that so many of us are willing to take the risks we take knowing the potential for danger is very telling and diagnostic!
It is a society driven by GREED at any cost. There is a profound lack of integrity across the board. The cardinal, the priests, the clergy, the journalists, the whole legal system, the business people and the whole F'n country is like a fish. It stinks from the top to the bottom.
Walk proud, be alert, have them on your terms, when finished, get rid of them. Do not let them manipulate or seduce. Do not let them call the shots. Do not seem too unaware or naieve. Do not wine and dine them. Travel with a good friend and be honest with your firend. Be courteous but be in charge. If you even think there is going to be a problem, take action, FAST. Do not at any time surrender your right to be the boss to any one of them. They are genetically incapable of altruism!!, integrity, honesty and fairness. Most have no conscience and are only motivated by MORE by any means necessary. It is a society where morals do not exist. The most moral appearing is the most suspect. BE ON THE ALERT from the time you arrive until you leave.
Peace & Blessings
Damien,
The Dominican Republic is as safe and/or as dangerous as you make it. If you enjoy the company of other gay men, you should be much safer than those of us who enjoy the company of trade, hustlers, and pay-for-play types. I believe most of the posters on this board do and it's not an easy game to play. Sometimes, I have to ask myself if putting my life on the line is worth 30 or 45 minutes of sexual satisfaction. It's like a spin of the wheel or a throw of the dice. My number can come up at any moment. So, once in the Dominican Republic, be careful and take the precautions that have gotten you through your previous travels. Be safe and enjoy!
From Florida,
Rafael
Some of the posters make it sound so DIRE! It is not that serious folks. And I am by no means making lite of a murder. BAD THINGS DO HAPPEN... But, if it were so dangerous then you old queens would not continue to flock down there to live the fantasy. Damien there are hustlers and non hustlers in both of the places that you mentioned. And in the DR I've interacted with both. But I have had my most pleasurable living with the hustlers. My advise to you is, be discreet and non flashy, know your surroundings, be intuitive, and be extra careful, and know that the Spanish you speak is a mighty tool. Relax and get yours, just like the majority of these nervous Nellies!
I've been going to the DR once or twice a year since 2004.
I've found it is easier when you speak Spanish. I learned to use a few phrases to say no so I can say no politely, and sometimes with humor. Courtesy and respect have always been helpful to me.
I've made a few friends down there, which makes things easier.
I've gone out to the beach with one friend and his family various times and had a good time.
When I am warned about someone, I HEED THAT WARNING.
Also, some of the Americans I've seen in the DR are not exactly angels either.
I've seen some act as if Columbus himself had appointed them governor of the colony.
Times are tough all over and people are get more desparate, not just in the DR.
I'm still planning to go back and I expect to have a wonderful time as always.
Damien, please DO NOT GO! We have a HUGE gay community here in Cleveland, Ohio, where my brother was planning on living. Come here instead. If I could give you my email address, I would. That goes for anyone! You could give me your address(s), and I would be happy to talk with you. It took me a while to admit that my brother was gay, but we were raised in the 50's. Things were very different back then. Did it change my feelings toward him? Hell, no! I went to every gay club/bar I could with him and enjoyed every minute. I would not change anything if I were able to--not ONE second! Just don't go to Santo Domingo, Damien. To those of you who love it there, I hope you will remain safe forever. I personally know people who have been there and have been victimized. Life is so short.
I take issue with the comment posted by Rafael that it is what you make it. In fact, much of the crime is not a result of sexual contact. It just happens and it is not a result of what one makes it. If only it were that easy. Judgment is easy. Yet, Rafael has had his day with many a hustler. The victims are not, in most cases, responsible. Jack was murdered not as a result of sex. Gays have been targeted and robbed just walking from hotel to hotel or to Dumbos or Pacos. It is too simple to say it is what you make it. That is another form of denial and judgmental. Not surprising having read his comments for a long time. I have been vic'd just filling my car rental at the local Texaco. I doubt his family member was murdered as a result of what he made it. It is not that simple and the randomness and uncertainty of life factor in. BE CAREFUL ALWAYS. Even that may not prevent something from happening.
GAWD! I have to agree with the one poster - many of these warnings are dire. As this is my first time I may stick with the gay boys. Unless I feel comfortable enough to deal with the trade. I've dealt with the trade in my home city, NY, PR, and other major cities. I grew up in an urban setting so those environments dont really bother me. I know what to expect. Growing up in the ghetto I know what to expect.. More than likely I'll still come. I'm too curious, I want to see what all the fuss is about! To Jack's Sister. I live in Ohio. Cleveland is cool.. lot's of Papis and Chulos there..but I turned 30 this year and graduated from college 8 years past due... I have a lot of celebrating to do and Cleveland Ohio just wont get it this time...
By the way, I'm soliciting advice on hotels etc. Im looking for recent info. Sto Domingo & Sosua/Puerto Plata area.
It is as safe or dangerous as one makes it? Oh really? Sounds self righteous & judgmental. It is misleading and not so. Too much evidence to support that remark. I wonder if his sister in laws son was murdered as a result of what he made it? It is a statement that victimizes the victim. To understand the culture and how it evolved is eye opening. They are taught to be dishonest from a very early age. The education system, for example, is full of students paying for better test results. In DR, everything has a price. It is a system of something for something. Even a smile exchanged innocently sets one up to be taken advantage of. It is a system that does not value life. Tourists have been murdered in the Acropolis Mall with many people around, simply leaving a bank. It is a unsafe country. Much of the crime is not even reported. Try calling 911 and see what happens. Try renting a car and going for a drive. The cops invent all sorts of reasons to steal money from the drivers, Dominican & foreigners alike. Oh really? It is what you make it. Making one responsible for being a victim is unfair and grossly righteous. It is so interesting how he decides to characterize the possibility of falling prey to the highly possible. Well, I heard when we spit up in the air it falls back in our own face. Be careful. No one is exempt! It is not as dangerous or as safe as we make it.
Believe what you want but BE CAREFUL.
Randomness and uncertainty are definitely a part of life. Bad things happen to good people. However, if I smoke two packs of cigarettes a day and get lung cancer, I can not attribute it to bad luck. If I get drunk in a bar and am later stumbling home, fall and break a leg, I have no one to blame but myself. If I befriend some bugarron in SD and after a few times in bed consider him a friend, I can not feign surprise when things begin to disappear from my apartment or worse happens.
Some things that occur in life are totally unexpected, true. Other things, we bring upon ourselves. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
From Florida,
Rafael
The 6:16 post from Rafael is audacious and smacks of arrogance. It is as safe and or dangerous as one makes it. Sounds like arm chair quarterbakcing and it assigns guilt to the potential victim. More often than not people do not deliberately make unsafe conditions for themselves. In DR, to know it is not a safe place, is better than believing we can make it dangerous or safe. Yes, we can decide which risks to take but that frequently does not determine the outcome. Much victimization occurs not as a result of consequence of the victim. It is a result of a dangerous society where there is a very low price put on human life. Nothing is sacred in DR.
I just want to warn any newbies who are contemplating coming to the DR for a gay holiday. By all means, come down and have fun. But the DR is not like other countries. To prepare yourself, watch the toughest prison and ghetto movies and tv series. Then double it. The DR is a prison society, but the prison is the whole country. Everyone behaves like an inmate, a perp, as if they were part of a prison system. This means they act as if they are already guilty, and have nothing to prove or fear. They have no "good name" or reputation to defend. There is no deterrent against crime because everyone is a criminal in a big or small way. Everyone is assumed to be crooks by everyone else. There is no "percentage" in being honest. The police are known to be worse than the criminals for venality and corruption and violence (non-judicial executions are common). It is a society where the guiderule is Suspicion (or rather certainty) of malfeasance, betrayal, and abuse. It is not a society of Trust. There is no social compact between citizens, no sense of civitas or commonwealth. Its every man for himself, true Darwinian struggle. The working assumption in all interactions is that there are no "innocent" or virtuous people (the good who are defended by police and government), but only criminals of two types: the winners (admired as baccano tigueres) and the losers (those who get caught or ripped off). You have to realize this is a poor society with its roots in slavery, colonialism, plutocracy, racism, and political dictatorship. It is currently a racist, feudal kleptocracy with a ruling class of pale-colored untouchable princes, and a serf class of dark-skinned laborers. From top to bottom, there is no shame attached to crime or the use of excessive force. Nobody is held to any universal standards of justice. Guilt and shame, moral and ethical judgements have no meaning when you have nothing to eat, no property to lose, no reputation to sully, and where everyone is on the make. When you deal with Dominicans, remember you have no recourse to justice after the fact of crime. So protect yourself in advance. It is an amoral country. This means you can have all the sex, drugs and rock'n'roll you want. This can feelliberating after the puritanism of the northern countries. But nothing is free. The price you pay may be your life.
Wow. I used to go to the DR a lot, but I have not been in over 3 years. Seems from the general tone of these comments things have changed for the worse. Could it be the devestation of the earthquake in Haiti has had a "trickle over" effect on the DR? Anthony, do you have any thoughts on this? You're the only one I trust to actually tell it like it is. Honstly think some queens get blinded by the dick and don't see things for how they really are. I was a victim of this for many years myself.
Anthony,
Please chime in on this one. You have a front row seat and would love to know your honest thoughts.
Thanks
Wow! I was not going to write anything else, but it amazes me how some threads twist and turn and what has come out in this thread are the true feelings of many posters towards the Dominican people. Here are just some of the comments made by people who go on a regular basis to the Dominican Republic:
1. It is a society driven by greed at any cost.
2. They always put themselves first.
3. The vast majority are completely
mercenary.
4. There is a lack of professional
integrity across the board.
5. It is a society where morals do
not exist.
6. Most have no conscience...
7. All are potential thieves, con
men or worse.
8. It is a society driven by greed at any cost.
9. Everyone is a criminal in a big
or small way.
0. It is a society of malfeasance,
betrayal and abuse.
Mind you, they are not talking about tricks of the trade, but the society as a whole. I wonder how they can go to the Dominican Republic and enjoy themselves in the company of a people that they loathe so much!
From Florida,
Rafael
OMG! This was a good read! Now this is what I miss and love about this blog. An open forum to opinionate and discuss! Now I'm feeling a bit like Eddie... what is your opinion on all this Mr Montgomery? If ever there was a need for a 'tell it like it is' comment, it is NOW!
Gathering my thoughts now ...
Has crime increased in the Dominican Republic. Yes. Has it increased enough where I am fearful of my safety? No.
There are potential risks anytime you travel to a country that has a high rate of poverty. But, I believe that you can follow a few precautions and be just fine.
Now, if you are traveling to the Dominican Republic and you want to procure hustlers, you should be careful. Just like you would any other city in the world. I wish I could offer some magic words of wisdom, but I don´t have any.
Jack Phillips´alleged killer was a taxi driver. One that he used or years. Over that time I am sure Jack grew to trust him somewhat. And it could happen to anyone. Or, I will say it could have happened to me. I try to be cautious and be careful, but I don´t know if someone around me is planning me harm. I am sure that if Jack had any inkling that people he trusted wanted to kill him he would have done something about it.
Crime can, and does, happen everywhere. Even in the Dominican Republic. Please be careful.
More later.
I have been going down to Santo Domingo for some time now and I have noticed the change and have also been a victim as well (more than once). For any firs timers and to those of you that haven’t been for a while I strongly suggest that you follow some of the advice that has been given. There are so many Gay Friendly cities here in the USA to visit, especially over the Labor Day Weekend. If by chance you are thinking about going down for Labor Day why not consider some other city to visit.Take Jack's sister up on her offer, go to Ohio. I plan to be there for Labor Day and if some of you stay away the price of DICK will drop by at least 50%.
Thank you Mr. Montgomery, that was short and sweet and to the point. But that statement about the taxi driver speaks VOLUMES!! It is so disheartening to be betrayed by someone that you trust. Trust is something that you don't just hand out, it is earned and usually that is over time. But this also has happened to me, and for lack of a better word... I GAGGED, GIZZLED, and HOOSPILATED!! But I got over it, and took it as a lesson learned and I escaped back to the NYC with my life. Alas, I will return, but will forever look at all new and old acquaintances with the proverbial 'third eye'. I also want to say that so many disparaging remarks were made about the Dominican people that are just NOT true. In any race of people there are good and evil, and let us not judge an entire race of people by a few lawless ones. But BEWARE of them!!!
Ya think?
Well you all have given me a lot to think about. I remember the first time I went to PR, I had read all of the reviews, postings, etc. All of them said stay away, crime is horrible, etc, etc. I was a but unnerved but I went down there anyway.And until this year, I've been going down every year. no problems, I just watch my back like I do in all major cities. Of course I love the trade, but if the gay boys are anything like they are in Brazil, I won't have to fuck around with hustlers...I do want to hear what Anthony has to say, especially to first time visitors, those both interested and NOT interested in hustlers. What about just the normal average gay tourist? If worst comes to worst, I'll just stay at an all inclusive.. *BOOOO! BORING. To those suggesting a US vacation. I live in Ohio, that's why I'm not interested in traveling to Cleveland - I can go ANY TIME I WANT. I need a nice beach vaca. beach, water, music etc. - Damien
No shade DIANDRA Hon, but Dominicans are not a 'race' they are a nationality. And to any other folks that don't know the difference there is it. Again I'm not saying this in anyway shady ok. Please don't get or be offended people.
"If you pick up a starving DOG and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a BUGORONE."
LOL. And the moral of this story is, if you're looking for love in the DR, forget it! Get a dog!
But seriously, those of us who go to the DR regularly know that Santo Domingo can be a dangerous place if you are not as careful and as vigilant as you are at home. You really must make a distinction, however, between SD and other areas of the country. While there is also crime in Las Terranas, Samana, Santiago, Jarabacoa, and Rio San Juan, these locations, and many others, are stunningly beautiful and populated by Dominicans who do not exhibit the dog-eat-dog [to continue the metaphor] mentality that predominates in the capitol and Boca Chica. The problem for most of us is, that it is not as easy to find boys to play with outside of SD and BC, but that is changing as the country is becomming less homophobic.
To poster 12:15 I concur, I was just waiting for someone else to say it first. I have traveled from coast to coast, and if one is demurely flirtatious you can get a muchaco anywhere on the island. Dominicans are very receptive to a non aggressive cruise. Sometimes (most times) some Spanish is necessary to seal the deal, but the mentality is more laid back and less predatory in the middle of La Isla. Also it's bigger, and cheaper and less dangerous.
I've been going to the DR for a few years now. One thing to remember about the DR is that many of the people there understand more English than one may think.
If you have contempt for the Dominican people they will be able to pick up on it through language, as well as your attitude or behavior.
It is a foreign country after all so I try to be careful.
However, as an African American Gay man, I am always careful about prejudging whole groups of people, especially when I know the horrible consequences that often result.
I travel to the DR several times a year. I would encourage you to visit here. I have a great time. Like any American city, it is important to use common sense and avoid getting overly drunk. If you come, try to stay in a gay hotel or a gay friendly hotel. You will meet other gay American men who are veteran visitors here and most are more than willing to give tips about what to do, where to go and what NOT to do. The Dominican people are wonderful people but there are exceptions.
Damien:
Go to the DR. It's what you want to do and if you don't go, you won't have given yourself the gift of being able to make up your own mind about what people are saying here.
Just a couple of suggestions, based on my own experience the first time I went in 2005........Start in Santo Domingo. Spend a couple of nights at Anthony's place - Camilo. I'm sure he'll be as kind to you as he was to me in helping me get "the lay of the land." He even helped me pick Las Terranas as my get-away-from-it-all place. He suggested I take the Caribe Tours bus to get there, which I did ($6.00 - five hours!). That ride and the four following days in (what was then) the sleepy town of Las Terranas did as much as all the local men I eventually met to cause me to fall in love with the DR.
I agree you might start with the gay boys. When I returned to the capital from Las Terranas, Anthony took me to The Sports Bar, where I met a really nice gay guy whom I hung around with for most of the rest of that first visit. Anthony can tell you whom I'm talking about. Don't get me wrong....he still needs his tip, but he's very sweet and I believe also honest. And you'll learn a lot about life in other parts of the city when you hang out with folks like him, especially since you speak Spanish.
I don't know what to say about all the very negative comments on this thread, except that based on my own experiences during five trips since 2005 and the friends I've made, it can't be all that worse than other places or even than many cities in the US.
So go! And have fun! If you like Puerto Rico, you'll love the DR, so long as you take time to smell the coffee (LOL).
George in SF
Interesting to note the different views of those who come to the DR and those that live here. having lived here for many years and not in the capital I have never met a Dominican whose first priority was not wangling some money from you ..and a lesser priority would be friendship. All my gringo friends would say the same ,Although I do not live there, I am informed that there are more than 800 cases pending of theft or violence against white owners in CDC. The concept of reciprocal friendship is virtually unknown in this country.
If you are prepared to be generous to the Dominicans and to treat them as equals,then there are few problems. The giving of money and gifts are the keys to a happy and reasonably safe life here.s
Just a warning to those who think that bad guys are less common in smaller towns versus the big city. Not! The socioeconomic reality in the DR, is that criminal guys are always on the move from city to city and town to town looking for prey. This is the floating population of ladrones, delinquentes, which locals warn you about. Typically these tigueres are based in Santo Domingo slums, but travel to Santiago, Macoris, Las Terrenas, looking for "work" - which means any source of income, be it construction, selling drugs, or selling their bodies. (And yes, they are often extremely hot and great sex). These migrants arrive new in town, check in with their criminal associates who tip them off to the local gringos and vulnerable marks, then they make their move. They become your buddy / lover, gain your trust, then after a few weeks, bang, they steal from you, hit you for loans, blackmail you, whatever. If you don't provide what they think they deserve they can get nasty. Usually these boys suddenly disappear one day because they make a mistake, maybe they try to sell drugs on some local capo's territory, or they steal a motorcycle or mug someone, then the local cops chase them out of town. They move on, but will be back when the local police chief changes, to start all over again. Remember: to a Dominican, a loan is a gift, you'll never get repaid. Using drugs is a sure way to get ripped off, and maybe blackmailed by your "friend" and the cops. Remember, anywhere there are gringos, there are professional crooks thinking 24/7 how to take advantage. The ladrones have worked out all the angles way before you see them coming. (You think you met them by chance in the street, at a bar, but in fact, they have stalked you, and arranged to make you think it was accidental). You can't outsmart or out muscle them, so protect yourself in advance. Only gamble what you can afford to lose. The DR is like Vegas, you may win today but in the end you'll lose, so take precautions to minimize your losses.
And the winner is... poster 8:31! You broke it down, you broke it down. I don't know if you live there or just have had years of experience but, did I say YOU BROKE IT DOWN!?! Ladies and gentlemen and Damien, look no further because that was the T!!!
There may be nothing completely untrue about what anyone has posted here, but taken together, most of these comments paint a very one-sided picture. There's more to this beautiful country than that - the music, the scenery, the friendliness of the REAL people (and believe me there are plenty of them around if you take the time to get to know them). Sure, there's crime, cheating, duplicity, whatever, just as there is in every third world country. And it's not just directed at "gringos."
I'll probably get slammed for preaching, but I do believe we often put ourselves into bad situations because we either don't understand or don't admit that we're nothing more than sex tourists if we don't take advantage of more than that when visiting an exciting country rich in history and - yes - culture. Example.....There are lots of good-looking young men in the town of El Limon. Ask around for one to guide you into the beautiful waterfall (don't ride the donkey's; that IS a tourist rip-off). It's about a two-to-three-hour hike in (I think about 15 km) but the results are well worth it. When you're in the forest, you may want to suck the guy's dick. He may (and quite probably will) let you. But be aware that the relationship will have changed, and not necessarily in your favor. You're going to be a different person to him from then on. That's just a fact of life. Do with it what you will.
I didn't get to be this old (yes, dears, OLD - LOL) by making bad decisions OR by being afraid. So I repeat, Damien, go to the DR. Don't ignore what these other posters have said, because it can be a jungle out there. But there's also so much more so long as you're willing to go look for it. And you sound like the kind of person who is.
As friend Rafael said, That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Happy Fourth, All!
George in SF
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!" Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Still waiting to hear from Anthony....From what Im gathering, the pick up boys in the DR are much more clever than those here in the US. If I hook up with them or are in their company, be very very aware as to what is going on around me...I think most of us follow those rules when dealing with trade.. shit, I hide my keys in the deep freezer in my basement. I'll stick with the gay boys this trip. To Anthony and George in SF tell me more about Las Terranas. I dont want to spend all 7 days in Sto Dom. Again, thanks to all who have posted comments. You all have been very helpful. Damien
hey George in SF do you have contact info? I'd like to chat.. I have a few more questions...takeallofme25@yahoo.com
-Damien
Anonymous
Sat Jul 03, 08:31:00 AM
Thu Jul 01, 01:37:00 PM
Wed Jun 30, 02:51:00 PM
I think you may be the same person that wrote the posts which included points such as:
1. It is a society driven by greed at any cost.
2. They always put themselves first.
3. The vast majority are completely
mercenary.
4. There is a lack of professional
integrity across the board.
5. It is a society where morals do
not exist.
6. Most have no conscience...
7. All are potential thieves, con
men or worse.
8. It is a society driven by greed at any cost.
9. Everyone is a criminal in a big
or small way.
10. It is a society of malfeasance,
betrayal and abuse.
Please contact me, I think your prospective is fascinating. I just read a book about the DR and the practice of Tigueraje, which confirms the opinions that you expressed so well. I would like to communicate with you. Please contact me at mmetrik37@yahoo.com
Thanks, George
When I visit the DR, I usually hear the types of negative remarks that I've seen on the blog.
This always brings me back to the question: Why do people keep coming back or choose to live in the DR?
I understand why I keep coming back. I have met many interesting people in the DR, both Dominican and American. I always look forward to seeing them.
"David" poses a good question: if the DR and Dominicans are so dangerous, why do we live here, or visit? It is a paradox. Yes, everything that has been said in warning about crime and exploitation is true. Yes, you will pay for your joys with empty wallets and broken hearts. But along the way you get something that is no longer available in "first world" countries, certainly not in the United States. That is: spontaneous amity, instant and easy comradeship for whatever you want, be it playing pool for a couple of hours (if you buy the beer), or recreational sex. In the States, every encounter between strangers is fraught with suspicion and filtered through prejudice and social ambition: Is she thin enough? Does he have a good job? Just try to chat with some guy on the street or in the subway in New York ! They'll treat you like a freak, or a pervert. But Dominicans are not afraid of other people. They are gregarious and sociable. They are not critical regarding age, income, and looks. They take you as you are. Because they are poor, they have time to kill. That means they have time for you. I think many, many Americans (and Brits, Swiss, Canadians, etc) are sick and tired of their society's superficial, materialistic, age-ist, looks-ist values. America can be a terribly lonely place, where single men and women over 30 or 40 almost never get touched, or hear a kind, affectionate word. That's why so many of them (us?) seek solace with Caribbean men and women. Dominicans are a tactile society. Touching for them is a good thing, a comfort. As for sex, many Dominicans regard sex as a diversion no different from dominoes or baseball. If they feel in control, get some pleasure, and earn a few pesos, they consider it a win-win situation. There is no Judeo-Christain guilt or shame attached to the body, the gentitals, nudity, or human contact. For the last 150 years northerners have been finding what's missing in their life, in the south: from Gauguin in Tahiti, to Gide in Algeria, to Loti in Asia, Stedman in Guiana, Paul Bowles in Morocco, the list goes on. I recommend you all check out "Vers le Sud", an excellent French movie with Charlotte Rampling, about white women tourists and their Haitian lovers, which was filmed in Las Terrenas, DR.
Question: "If the DR is so dangerous, why do we (gays) visit?" Answer: Because of the easy and cheap sex. Not at all because of the "companionship" of the lovely Dominican people. That is bullshit and you all know it. How many of us visit or hang out with Dominican families? Very few if any. You can whitewash it as you may, but just take a look at the hordes of older, gay men from New York, Washington, D.C., Atlanta
New Jersey, and places as far as away as California waiting for tables at Pacos's to check out the boys as they pass by. These men could not get sex in their hometowns unless they offered to pay for it, only it's easier in the DR and that's why they take that plane several times a year, myself included!
From Florida,
Rafael
To poster 02:31:00pm Thank you very much for putting my thoughts into words. For a lot of us over 50, going down to SDQ is the closest thing to a fulfilling social life and semblance of romance that we have had in a very long time, and have all but given up on daring to look for or expecting to finding a situation in the USA anywhere close to what we PAY for and experience in the DR. We all know the RULES.
That 2:31 post was quite profound. And I am really perplexed that this thread is still going on all these days later. Well, I think that is because this topic just really hits a nerve with anyone who has traveled to or lived there. I love Dominicans malo or bueno. And my relationships with them be it platonic or sexual, revolves around how deep in my pockets I allow then to go. And you know what folks, I really do not have a problem with that fact. After many years I have just figured out how to make it work for ME. And I too have seen that film, and I highly recommend it to anyone who like Ms Rampling's character in the film, likes to "Go South".
To the posters above, thank you for answering my question.
A few thoughts.
Do I sit at Paco's and watch the men. I sure do. I've always been a people watcher. I also like looking at stylishly dressed women that occasionally walk by.
Do I hang out with the family of my Dominican friend. I sure do. The next time I go I look forward to going to the beach with my freind and his family. We usually go to the non-tourist beach.
As far as the lack of guilty or shame, don't tell the Cardinal in Santo Domingo, he'll worry about his income.
If there is one thing I've learned about the DR, its that sex isn't as cheap or as easy as one my think.
Romance has always involved money, no matter where you are.
As far as theft is concerned I remember a certain former president in the U.S. who stole an election with the help of the highest judges in the land.
I was raised to deal with people one person at a time and to try to show respect to others. Does it work always? No. But when we deal with each other we have to start somewhere.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Anthony this has been interesting but it is time for you to close this thread. It seems to now be a competition between Queens and who can sum it up the best. Several have contributed more than once and seem to contradict themselves. They are tired and trivial. You have the power to sum it up. Please do so and then stop the competition. I love your blog, I thank you for what you do. Peace
To Thu Jul 08, 10:15:00pm. Get a life or go down to SDQ and buy some DICK. If you had a life worth talking about in the USA you wouldn't have the time to read this blog. Are you angry that you can't afford to go down to SDQ? What's up with you silly queen?
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